Interesting. Undoubtedly that success led to this failure. Zong appears not to have taken into account these differences:
— acting as an individual vs. Acting as a leader of a squad
— days vs. weeks of travel
— the relative difference between protecting scores vs. hundreds
— the fighting willingness of free citizens vs. that of slaves
This falls into the area of strategy, which was Ipola’s purview and area of excellence. Zonn was an inspiring frontline leader. Zonn had, before this, been on the offensive, and had smaller numbers to worry about. However, the epitome of generalship is not small numbers on the offensive. That epitome is leading an army, vulnerable in detail, in a long fighting retreat. It is incredibly difficult, and morally harrowing in the extreme. Even such men as Chief Joseph, of the Nez Perce, could not pull this off, in the end.
I’m reminded of Mass Effect 3, when the Turians were on planet tuchanka. The commanding officer knew coming in a particular direction would be certain doom, so he took a different way, only to face a doomier certainty.
The point is, if the plans worked, then nobody would be ragging on them for their failures. Question now becomes what did Zonn do in the fallout?
One who *did* pull off a shorter, though harder, retreat was Alexander Suvorov. He was a Russian General tasked with uniting his forces and working with a lazy arrogant idiot, when he was in Switzerland, fighting the French.
Suvorov’s forces were undefeated in Italy, and under orders he was moving to join with another Russian Army under said idiot, named Korsakov. Before Suvorov could get through the Alpine passes to Zurich, Korsakov managed to get his Army beaten badly, and withdrew NE away from Suvorov’s advancing 18,000 men, in spite of not being pursued by Massena and in spite of orders from Suvorov to join with him. Suvorov was now outnumbered by the Massena’s French Army by 4 to 1, and had to retreat. He tried one pass after another, only to find them blocked. He finally managed to get 13,000 men, their cannon and horses, out alive through Panix Pass. Take a look at the terrain of the pass he got his army through while fighting pursuing forces, in the dead of winter.
To take nothing away from Suvarov, I think a better comparison would be Chief Joseph and the Nez Perces’ attempt to flee to Canada in 1877. About 800 men, women and children covered 1170 miles over mountains and through passes, canyons and the new Yellowstone National Park to within 40 miles of the Canadian border where 418 surrendered after being surrounded.
Tom Billings
The difference being that Chief Joseph got caught by his pursuers, under General Miles. Suvorov didn’t, and got his Army, or most of it, back home. It is true his own sovereign abandoned him once he got home, and he died, at the age of 70 months later, but he got his people home.
I like that you can really see the progression with fit for fight guy in the first panel and then seeing him close to dying from starvation in the last panel. It illustrates the passage of time well. 🙂
Good catch! Though I’d assume more disease than starvation. Neither Zonn nor Braids-and-light-blue-armbands seem to have lost weight in the last panel.
Anyone who goes on a rescue mission of some type should always keep one thing in mind before they go: Take account of the probability that those who are to be rescued may not be physically capable of traveling under their own power & provide means of transportation in case they can’t. I think he forgot what kind of shape the prisoners were likely to be kept…And that only compounded with other problems in trying to get them out.
A key point here is that it was Zonn’s desire, to feel good about rescuing prisoners, that led him astray from his planned mission, scouting and a bit of harassment. He chucked his old plan without a new plan that could work because under his old plan he never had the resources to make the new one work. This is right in the line Tula’s talk with Zona touched on in https://barbarianprincess.com/comic/goodbye-baby/page-408/
“But the heart can be tricky- it doesn’t always lead us to the safe place. It can get us hurt and killed so easily.”
and later in that page:
“Knowledge only knows what *is*- not for sure what is to be, or even what should be. Besides, knowledge may be certain, but certain knowledge isn’t easy to come by as people want.”
This is why “War is Hell” is not just a description of the losers. It is the biggest reason why commanders correct their subordinate officers’ plans again and again with the words “Hope is *not* a Method”. Self-restraint in war is an inherent portion of every moment for a commander. In that restraint can be pain unending, when you turn your back on a “rescue” that *feels* so right.
Tom is right.
Remember also: “Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won.” – Arthur Wellsley, Duke of Wellington
16 thoughts on “Light At The End Of the Tunnel – Page 1029”
jd.
Too bad someone didn’t warn him that it was too dangerous… Oh wait ( https://barbarianprincess.com/comic/forward-looking-back-and-return/page-507/ ).
I wonder if Zona will remind him of that, or if that will be Tula.
Descartes
Interesting. Undoubtedly that success led to this failure. Zong appears not to have taken into account these differences:
— acting as an individual vs. Acting as a leader of a squad
— days vs. weeks of travel
— the relative difference between protecting scores vs. hundreds
— the fighting willingness of free citizens vs. that of slaves
jd.
(Then again, it might be more funny if Zona did and Tula would give her a meaningful, sarcastic look.)
Sorry for commenting twice, the idea popped into my mind just as I was clicking that “Post Comment” button. I guess it came post comment.
Prairie Son
I think it’s safe to say the Urrts were minded to take Zonn personally by that point.
Either that or the Urrt who ganked him got to be the next Owner of Owners.
Tom Billings
This falls into the area of strategy, which was Ipola’s purview and area of excellence. Zonn was an inspiring frontline leader. Zonn had, before this, been on the offensive, and had smaller numbers to worry about. However, the epitome of generalship is not small numbers on the offensive. That epitome is leading an army, vulnerable in detail, in a long fighting retreat. It is incredibly difficult, and morally harrowing in the extreme. Even such men as Chief Joseph, of the Nez Perce, could not pull this off, in the end.
Freelance
I’m reminded of Mass Effect 3, when the Turians were on planet tuchanka. The commanding officer knew coming in a particular direction would be certain doom, so he took a different way, only to face a doomier certainty.
The point is, if the plans worked, then nobody would be ragging on them for their failures. Question now becomes what did Zonn do in the fallout?
Tom Billings
One who *did* pull off a shorter, though harder, retreat was Alexander Suvorov. He was a Russian General tasked with uniting his forces and working with a lazy arrogant idiot, when he was in Switzerland, fighting the French.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Suvorov
Suvorov’s forces were undefeated in Italy, and under orders he was moving to join with another Russian Army under said idiot, named Korsakov. Before Suvorov could get through the Alpine passes to Zurich, Korsakov managed to get his Army beaten badly, and withdrew NE away from Suvorov’s advancing 18,000 men, in spite of not being pursued by Massena and in spite of orders from Suvorov to join with him. Suvorov was now outnumbered by the Massena’s French Army by 4 to 1, and had to retreat. He tried one pass after another, only to find them blocked. He finally managed to get 13,000 men, their cannon and horses, out alive through Panix Pass. Take a look at the terrain of the pass he got his army through while fighting pursuing forces, in the dead of winter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panix_Pass
Quite appropriately, Alexander Suvorov is considered among the greatest leaders of men in the 18th Century.
Gerald Ney
To take nothing away from Suvarov, I think a better comparison would be Chief Joseph and the Nez Perces’ attempt to flee to Canada in 1877. About 800 men, women and children covered 1170 miles over mountains and through passes, canyons and the new Yellowstone National Park to within 40 miles of the Canadian border where 418 surrendered after being surrounded.
Tom Billings
The difference being that Chief Joseph got caught by his pursuers, under General Miles. Suvorov didn’t, and got his Army, or most of it, back home. It is true his own sovereign abandoned him once he got home, and he died, at the age of 70 months later, but he got his people home.
Lora
I like that you can really see the progression with fit for fight guy in the first panel and then seeing him close to dying from starvation in the last panel. It illustrates the passage of time well. 🙂
jd.
Good catch! Though I’d assume more disease than starvation. Neither Zonn nor Braids-and-light-blue-armbands seem to have lost weight in the last panel.
MidnightDStroyer
Anyone who goes on a rescue mission of some type should always keep one thing in mind before they go: Take account of the probability that those who are to be rescued may not be physically capable of traveling under their own power & provide means of transportation in case they can’t. I think he forgot what kind of shape the prisoners were likely to be kept…And that only compounded with other problems in trying to get them out.
Tom Billings
A key point here is that it was Zonn’s desire, to feel good about rescuing prisoners, that led him astray from his planned mission, scouting and a bit of harassment. He chucked his old plan without a new plan that could work because under his old plan he never had the resources to make the new one work. This is right in the line Tula’s talk with Zona touched on in https://barbarianprincess.com/comic/goodbye-baby/page-408/
“But the heart can be tricky- it doesn’t always lead us to the safe place. It can get us hurt and killed so easily.”
and later in that page:
“Knowledge only knows what *is*- not for sure what is to be, or even what should be. Besides, knowledge may be certain, but certain knowledge isn’t easy to come by as people want.”
This is why “War is Hell” is not just a description of the losers. It is the biggest reason why commanders correct their subordinate officers’ plans again and again with the words “Hope is *not* a Method”. Self-restraint in war is an inherent portion of every moment for a commander. In that restraint can be pain unending, when you turn your back on a “rescue” that *feels* so right.
The Last Garou
Tom is right.
Remember also: “Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won.” – Arthur Wellsley, Duke of Wellington
GeraldNey
“It’s a good thing war is so terrible; otherwise we would grow too fond of it”. Robert E Lee after Fredericksburg
Reservist
The warrior with funky trousers seems perfectly fighting fit and well fed and all, in the first panel. Maybe a bit thinner than the other warriors.
But in the last, he looks like he just came back from the concentration / death camps / gulags / etc.
How come Zonn looks just as ripped as before? I don’t get it.
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